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Robert, of Vermandois, Count of Meaux and Troyes

Male Abt 914 - 967  (~ 53 years)

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  • Name Robert  
    Suffix of Vermandois, Count of Meaux and Troyes 
    Born Abt 914  Meaux, Brie, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Male 
    Died Aug 967  France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    • “ROBERT de Vermandois, son of HERIBERT [II] Comte de Vermandois & his wife Adela [Capet] (-after 19 Jun 966). "Rodberti filium Heriberti comitis" witnessed a charter of "Gauzfredus comes" dated Jul 940[1080]. Under the division of the territorories organised subsequent to his father's death in 943, Robert became Comte de Meaux. He became Comte de Troyes in 956 on the death of his father-in-law, by right of his wife. Richer names "Robertus Trecarum princeps, Heriberti tiranni filiuss, Hugonis vero abdicate frater" when recording his rebellion against King Lothaire and capture of Dijon in 959[1081]. The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records that “Rotbertum comitem” expelled “Ansegisum Trecarum Episcopus” who soughht refuge “in Saxoniam ad Ottonem Imperatorem”, dated to 959[1082]. Otto I King of Germany sent his son Bruno to besiege Troyes, and King Lothar attacked Dijon which capitulated in 960[1083]. "Gaufridus…Andecavorum comes" issued a charter dated 19 Jun 966 subscribed by "Roberti comitis Trecassinorum…"[1084].
      m (before 950) [as her first husband,] ADELAIS [Wera], daughter of GISELBERT Duc des Bourguignons, Comte de Chalon-sur-Saône et de Troyes & his wife Ermengardis [de Dijon] ([930/35]-after Aug 967). "Trecassine urbis comitem Robertum" donated land to "Gratianum abbatem monasterii Sancti Petri Dervensis" by charter dated 6 Aug 959, signed by "Adelais comitisse, Erberti filii eorum, Walterii vicecomitis"[1085]. The Chronicle of Saint-Bénigne de Dijon records the death in 956 of "Gislebertus comes Burgundionum", names "filia Leudegarde" and "aliam…filiam…Werram", and the latter's marriage to "Robertus comes Trecassinorum"[1086]. It is unclear why these two sources refer to the wife of Comte Robert by different names, as "Adelalais comitisse" who signed the 959 charter must have been the same person as the wife of Robert named in 956 because the former document also refers to "Erberti filii eorum". It is possible that the reference to "Werram" is a transcription error as no other reference to this name has so far been found in other contemporary French sources. Her birth date range is estimated from her own daughter's estimated birth date of [950].
      Comte Robert & his wife had [four] children:
      1. HERIBERT [V] "le Jeune" ([945/50]-28 Jan 995 or 996, bur Abbaye de Lagny-en-Mussien). "Trecassine urbis comitem Robertum" donated land to "Gratianum abbatem monasterii Sancti Petri Dervensis" by charter dated 6 Aug 959, signed bby "Adelais comitisse, Erberti filii eorum, Walterii vicecomitis"[1087]. He succeeded his father in 966 as Comte de Meaux et Comte de Troyes. It is assumed that Héribert [V] succeeded his paternal uncle Héribert [III] in [983/Apr 985], based on the following argument. A letter of Gerbert dated 983 records that "Heriberti Trecassini et Oddonis comitis filii Tedbaldi" were enemies of "Adelbero Remonis archiepiscopus"[1088]. However, a letter dated to Apr 985 names "Ottonis et Heribererti", while a letter dated to mid-985 records that "Ottonem, Heribertum" made peace with the archbishop[1089]. Another letter of Gerbert dated to [late 986/early 987] records that "O et Heribertus comites" were part of the council of Emma Queen of France[1090]. It is assumed that "Oddonis/Ottonem/O" all refer to the same person. However, it is suggested that only the first letter applies to Héribert [III], the change to Héribert [V] being indicated in the subsequent letters by "Heribertum" being named after "Ottonem" instead of before, which suggests that he was the junior of the two from Apr-985. On the death of his paternal uncle Héribert [III] "le Vieux", Lothaire King of France invested him with Epernay and le Perthois. He helped King Lothaire conquer Lotharingia, and imprisoned the comte de Verdun[1091]. m ---. 959. The name of Héribert's wife is not known. Bur suggests[1092] that she was a daughter of Etienne [Stephanus] Comte de Gévaudan & his second wife Adelais d'Anjou, basing his theory on the transmission of the name "Stephanus" to the couple's son. Héribert [V] & his wife had one child:
      a) STEPHANUS [Etienne] (-[1 Jun 1019/9 Jun 1021], bur Abbaye de Lagny-en-Mussien). Rodulfus Glaber names "Stephanus comes Trecorum et Meldorum, Heriberti filius", recording that after his death without an heir "secundus Odo filius…prioris Odonis" seized all the estates[1093]. He succeeded his father as Comte de Meaux, Comte de Troyes et de Vitry. “Stephano comite et Ala comitissa coniuge sua” are named as present at the elevation of the body of Saint Ayoul de Provins, dadated to [996/99][1094]. Robert II King of France donated property to Lagny abbey, at the request of “Stephanus…comes…noster etiam nepos”, by charter dated 24 Feb 1019 which names “pater suus Herbertus”[1095]. The only family relationship which has been identified between King Robert and Comte Stephanus is that the king´s paternal grandfather´s sister was the wife of Héribert [II] Comte de Vermandois, who was Stephanus´s paternal great grandfather, which appears remote for the word “nepos” to apply. It is possible that there is a closer relationship through Stephanus´s otherwise unknown mother. m (before 999) ALIX, daughter of ---. “Stephano comite et Ala comitissa coniuge sua” are named as present at the elevation of the body of Saint Ayoul de Provins, dated to [996/99][1096].
      2. ADELA de Meaux ([950]-974 after 6 Mar). Adela, wife of Comte Geoffroy, is named as daughter of Comte Robert in two 12th century Angevin genealogies[1097]. Her marriage date is estimated based on the estimated birth date of her oldest daughter. "Adela" donated property to Saint-Aubin d'Angers by charter dated 6 Mar 974 which names "seniore meo Gauzfredo comite" and is subscribed by "Gauzfredi comitis, Fulconis filii eius, Gauzfredi filii eius"[1098]. The Chronicæ Sanccti Albini names "Adela comitissa…et marito suo Gaufrido" as present at the ordination of "Rainaldus episcopus" in 1074[1099]. "Fulco Andecavorum comes" relinquished rights to the bishop of Angers "pro anima patris mei Gauffredi et matris Adelæ" by charter dated 17 Jan 1020[1100]. m ([965]) as his first wife, GEOFFROY I “Grisegonelle” Comte d'Anjou, son of FOULQUES II Comte d’Anjou & his first wife Gerberge [de Maine] (-21 Jul 987).
      3. [ADELAIS de Troyes ([950/55]-after 991). The Historia Francorum Senonensis refers to the wife of "Karolus" as "filiam Herberti comitis Trecarum"[1101]. Assuming the birth of the couple's eldest son in 970, this could not refer tto Héribert, son of Robert, whose birth is dated to [950]. It is also unlikely to have been Héribert II Comte de Vermandois, father of Robert, who was not Comte de Troyes. Settipani suggests[1102] that the Historia must be in error and that her father was Robert Comte de Troyes. This would not be the only error in this source, as the Historia also refers to "Karolus, frater eius [=Hludovicus], filius Hlotharii regis" when recording his "succession" in 987[1103]. The Chronico Richarrdi Pictavensis also names "Carolus uxore sua…filia Herberti Comitis Trecarum"[1104], presumably based on the same source as the Historia. Her name is recorded by Richer, who states that "Karolum…cum uxore Adelaide et filio Ludovico, et filiabus duabus, quarum altera Gerberga, altera Adelaidis dicebatur, necnon et Arnulfo nepote" were imprisoned by Hugues "Capet" King of France[1105]. Orderic Vitalis links to the two sets of references by recording that Charles was imprisoned with hiis wife who was the daughter of Heribert Comte de Troyes[1106]. An interesting twist to this apparently straight-forward explanation is provided by another passage in Richer which refers disparagingly to Charles's marriage to "uxorem de militari ordine sibi imparem"[1107]. It is difficult to imagine this description being appropriate to the Vermandois/Carolingian origin of Charles's known wife. Ferdinand Lot therefore proposed that the text means that Charles was married twice[1108]8]. If such a second marriage did take place, it must have occurred at the height of the dispute between Charles and his brother King Lothar around [975]. At that time Charles was challenging his brother's authority to rule, and it is difficult to imagine that he would weaken his own position by contracting an unequal marriage. The comment by Richer could presumably be explained by his personal dislike of the Vermandois family. m ([970]) CHARLES de France, son of LOUIS IV "d'Outremer" King of the Franks & his wife Gerberga von Sachsen (Laon summer 953-in prison Orléans after 991, bur 1001 Maastricht, St Servatius). He was invested as Duke of Lower Lotharingia by Emperor Otto II in May 977.]
      4. [ARCHAMBAUD (-29 Aug 968, bur Sens Saint-Pierre-le-Vif). Archbishop of Sens 959. The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records that “Archembaldus” was installed as archbishop “V Kal Jul”, in 959 from the context[1109]. Acccording to Gallia Christiana[1110], Archambaud Archbishop of Sens was the son of Robert Comte de Troyes and his wife Adelais de Bourgogne. This may be based on the Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis which records the death “in…mense Augustoo” (in 968 from the context) of “pater ipsius Rotbertus…vir nobilis”, referring to archbishop Archambaud[1111], assuming that this refers to Robert Comte de Troyes whose activities are recorded earlier in the same source. However, the chronology is unfavourable for this parentage to be correct. The Chronicon Sancti Petri Vivi Senonensis records the death “IV Kal Sep” (in 968 from the context) of “Archembaldus Archiepiscopus…adhuc iuvenis” and his burial “in basilica beati Petri”[1112]. Although stated to be “iuvenis” when he died, he must have been a young child when installed as archbishop if the estimated dates of marriage and birth of the members of Comte Robert´s family are correct. His extreme youth at the time of his appointment is not commented on in the sources so far consulted. In any case, the name Archambaud is not otherwise found in the family of the comtes de Vermandois, which also suggests that the suggested parentage might not be correct.]

      From Wikipedia:
      “Robert of Vermandois (died 968) was Count of Meaux after his father Herbert II of Vermandois.
      He was married to Adelaide of Burgundy, daughter of Giselbert, Duke of Burgundy. They had three children:
      -Herbert III, Count of Meaux (c. 950-995)
      -Adele of Meaux, (c. 950-c. 980)
      -Adelaise of Troyes (c. 955-c. 991)«s87» [1]
    Person ID I12607  Lowell&Block
    Last Modified 3 Mar 2021 

    Father Herbert or Heribert II, Comte de Meaux, de Soissons et de Vermandois,   b. Abt 879, Vermandois, Normandy, France Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 23 Feb 943  (Age ~ 64 years) 
    Mother Adela or Liégarde, of France,   b. Abt 899 
    Family ID F4338  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Adelais (Wera or Vera),   b. Abt 930, Burgundy, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
     1. Herbert V “Le Jeune”, Count of Meaux et Comte de Troyes,   b. Abt 950,   d. 995  (Age ~ 45 years)
    +2. Adela (Adelaide or Adele), of Meaux,   b. Abt 950,   d. 974  (Age ~ 24 years)
    +3. Adelaise, of Troyes,   b. Abt 955,   d. Abt 991  (Age ~ 36 years)
     4. Archambaud,   d. 29 Aug 968
    Last Modified 3 Mar 2021 
    Family ID F4336  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsBorn - Abt 914 - Meaux, Brie, France Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - Aug 967 - France Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Sources 
    1. [S87] Foundation for Medieval Genealogy., Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Trustees.